Pension For Life

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Pension For Life

Post by Xnurse on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 1:11 pm

Liberals to unveil lifetime pensions next week, but veterans say amounts too low


Veteran Affairs Minister Seamus O'Regan gestures during an interview in his office on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Dec. 6, 2017.

GLORIA GALLOWAY
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED DECEMBER 14, 2017


The federal government is preparing to offer disabled veterans who retired in the past 12 years the lifetime pensions they have demanded but the amounts being discussed are far lower than what is given to those who left the Canadian Forces before 2006.

A source says Veterans Affairs Minister Seamus O'Regan will announce next Tuesday that veterans who fall under the New Veterans Charter will be entitled to receive lifetime pensions of up to $1,200 a month. Sources say those payments will kick in in 2019.

A spokesman for Mr. O'Regan said Thursday that neither the date of the announcement nor the amount of the pensions has been decided. But the numbers, which originate with a government official, are now floating around the veterans community.

Newer veterans, including those who served in Afghanistan, have complained for years that the veterans who retired before 2006 received a superior compensation package to those who retired after the New Veterans Charter, which was approved by all parties in the House of Commons and implemented under the Conservative government, became law.

While the old Pension Act provided lifetime pensions, which now amount to more than $2,700 a month for qualified veterans, the charter was based primarily on lump-sum payments plus other benefits that vary according to the degree of disability and the toll it has taken on the veteran and his family.

The Liberals campaigned in the 2015 election on a promise to reinstate the lifetime pensions but doing so has proved to be more difficult and costly than anticipated. If the announcement takes place next week, it will have taken more than two years since the vote that brought Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to office for the pension promise to be kept.

Just last week, the B.C. Court of Appeal struck down a claim by six disabled veterans who are part of what is known as the Equitas lawsuit, which demanded reinstatement of the lifetime pensions and equality with vets who fall under the Pension Act.

And, even though the pensions are now about to be announced, those veterans are not happy.

Aaron Bedard, one of the Equitas veterans who suffered severe post-traumatic stress disorder, said he and other veterans heard through unofficial sources on Thursday that there would be a cap of $1,200 on the pensions.

That is not acceptable, said Mr. Bedard.

"If this is in fact what it will be, then we will be forced to apply for leave to the Supreme Court of Canada to be heard, to help our case progress and to keep up the fight," he said. "That's not parity to the Pension Act."

Two years ago, officials at Veterans Affairs were discussing pensions that would amount to $1,450 a month for the veterans of the New Veterans Charter and that plan was abandoned because it was unacceptable to the Equitas vets, Mr. Bedard said.

When the appeal court ruled against the veterans last week, Mr. O'Regan said in a statement that his department will work to strengthen support to forces members, veterans and their families by providing support necessary for financial independence.

"We remain committed to a lifelong benefit option for ill and injured veterans," Mr. O'Regan said, "and we will finalize a benefit-for-life option for pension program for ill and injured veterans soon."

The government promised in the last federal budget to announce its plan for bringing back lifetime pensions before the end of this year.

The pensions would be in addition to other payments currently made to disabled veterans under the New Veterans Charter including the Permanent Injury Allowance, the Career Impact Allowance and the Earnings Loss Benefit, although the terms of those benefits are expected to be revised when the pensions are announced.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-to-unveil-lifetime-pensions-next-week-but-veterans-say-amounts-too-low/article37325015/


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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 3:27 pm

Thanks Xnurse, you got a keen eye to find this article so fast in it's published timing.

A spokesman for Mr. O'Regan said Thursday that neither the date of the announcement nor the amount of the pensions has been decided. I think this is your typical response when something gets leaked. I think this article moves the rumor closer to fact as they would not have published it if they didn't believe their source. So not confirmed, but looks like the article is fact, at least close to fact.

Reading the article, and if indeed it is fact, no one's going to tell me it took over two years to come up with this pension. Like I have said from the very beginning, this pension was drafted by the bureaucrats before Kent Hehr was made Minister of Veterans Affairs. We want to take our time and get it right, that is bullshit right there, this proves that the Ministers who are promoted to the Veterans file have no Idea on the specifics of the file, they know the very basics, enough to get them through a speech along with photo ops. When I say they are useless, here's the proof.

It is the bureaucrats who run the Veterans file, and it is the Minister of Veterans Affairs who's in charge of the Veterans file. The Minister allows the bureaucrats to run the Veterans file simply because the Minister has no Idea on the specifics of the Veterans file. That is why Veterans find themselves caught up in an ongoing battle with it's government over treatment.

Remember one important fact, the lifelong pension can be anything, as long as it is implemented before the next election, the Liberals kept their promise. The merits of the pension itself means nothing to the Liberals.

Those who are 100% on the old pension act know the difference between a tax disability pension for life, and a non taxed disability pension for life. And that is what is in question here, tax versus, non tax. Anything taxed puts the pension in a whole different category in terms of it's merits compared to the old pension act. The pension legislation will not be worth the paper it's written on. If it is non taxed, and is capped at $1200.00 this again would be worth nothing compared to the old pension act. If for instance they cap 1200 for 100% for life tax free, it would take 25 years to get to the $360.000 mark, then it would be profit moving forward after 25 years. Not a pension that would be close to the old pension act pension.
Nevertheless, the Liberals will allow the bureaucrats to write up the legislation on the pension the way the bureaucrats see fit, and we all know what that means.    

I pushed real hard at the very beginning for advocates to concentrate on this lifelong pension, but no one wanted to hear it. It was all about believing it will come, and to take the time to get it right. Where are those people today? I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate what Veteran groups are doing because I do appreciate it, but there are a lot  of people who have to leave their egos home, and start realizing what is going on around them, what has to change in order to bring about real proactive advocating. Again, I'm not saying I don't appreciate those who are taking a stand publicly in our defence, I just would like to see more unity and understanding of needed change in tactics. I read on a site yesterday where one Veteran suggested something, it was well written, and written in a respectful manner, the admin of the site responded by saying, awesome a lawyer. Some sites are run in a dictatorship fashion where only the opinions of the site admins are valid, this is not good in any way shape or form. People or Veterans that have important suggestions gets unnoticed because of situations like this, it is far from being united.

So now we find ourselves in this scenario surrounding the lifelong pension, and the Veterans file in general. Where do we go from here? Well in my opinion the damage has been done, what has transpired on our file from the time the Liberals took office up to now is something we all have to learn to live with. I think public protest, and informing the media on what has taken place, and continues to take place on our file must continue. However, I do believe that the Canadian government is no friend to the Canadian disabled Veteran, therefore a complete government boycott might just be a good Idea for advocacy groups to consider, all advocacy groups except the Legion of course. This could be a good start in unifying Veterans across the Country. It is unification that is needed, and once that is accomplished, working on a same page message, and change of tactics would in my opinion be the proper route to take at this point.
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by iceman on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 5:41 pm

here is the thing... they can say they are giving the award to a maximum of 1200/month, but they realistically have not done anything about lifetime pension, and are just giving what they already do, just wording it differently. and THAT is something I think we can legitimately complain about and should be reported to the entire media etc.

according to VAC888e(2016-06)
Disability Award Payment Options

the options are
Please indicate below how you elect to receive your award by choosing one of the following options:*

Lump sum and annual payments - Indicate the amount of lump sum you would like to receive and indicate how many years you would like to receive annual payments: $_______ and _______years

Annual payments - Indicate how many years you would like to receive annual payments: ______ years.

Lump sum payment - If you choose this option, you will receive $_____ as soon as possible

** i think prior to 2016, you got monthly payments

IF you received 100% at one shot and selected annual payments over 25 years, you would get 14,400 / year


according to the new lifetime option being leaked ... IF you have 100%, you get 1200/month or 14,400 / year. (basically restoring monthly payments)

the only difference is that if you last more that 25 years, you get a little bit more.

(however... here is the kicker if you take 360,000 and INVEST it at a secured investment of 4%, you would still get 14,400 / year. after 25 years, you STILL have 360,000.

the government, in all their wisdom, is simply giving you the interest of a 4% investment on your money, and never giving you the money. . they don't lose a cent. in actual fact, they will be SAVING money with their new policy.

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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Stayner on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 6:12 pm

There goes our last hope for a decent pension.

I won't be voting Liberal next election.
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Dameon on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 6:54 pm

Just curious, but what if they intend to leave everything in place that is current under the NVC and add the pension. I know its a long shot, and that does not include an "option". But wouldn't that come much closer to matching the old system, while still keeping the new things in place. From my point of view, giving up the new education funding coming in April 2018, and the rehab program would be devastating. I don't think the old system would fund that, would it? I don't know. But for me, even looking at the numbers, its not just about the money. I agree that the security is important. But there are so many issues. The inequality of the ELB, makes me ill. The old system was about a paycheque and forget them, from what I managed to glean. I kind of wish there was somewhere where all this information was available, so that someone could sit down and just figure it all out.

The problem being I suppose that every Veteran's needs are different. Old PA, NVC, or new changes, there will be some winners, and some losers. The whole thing just drives me nuts, and the more I try to ignore it, the worse it gets.

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Re: Pension For Life

Post by pinger on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 7:20 pm

Dameon...

The more I tried to figure it out, the more it drove me batty.

Also called politics and imo, It NEVER matters which party is in power.
aka snafu.
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 7:49 pm

No matter what way one slices it, the pension will be worthless. No Veteran today should be surprised on the merits of the pension.

The New Veterans Charter is geared on Transition, the New Charter includes both injured Veterans, and non injured Veterans. I don't believe anyone would be against transition, rehabilitation or whatever benefits come from the New Veterans Charter. This is not the issue Veterans have, the issue is the fairness compared to both the pension act, and the New Veterans Charter. Individuals, government officials use what is available in the New Veterans Charter as merits the New Charter holds, don't be fooled by these types of statements, there meant to distract away from the reality of the pension act being far superior than the New Charter. Here is an excellent example of my statement, The pension act could have stayed in place, what we see today in the New Veterans Charter most if not all could have been added to the pension act. They did not want to go this route simply because the bureaucrats were losing their own self security because most disabled Veterans who were close or at 100% on the pension act, were secured enough to take a permanent leave of absent from VAC altogether. The disabled Veterans now were in a better position to concentrate on their medical conditions. What we are seeing today is complete chaos, you see it with the backlogs, this pension, and all of the Idiotic implementations coming into play since the enactment of the New Charter. The Minister the other day said with the old pension act we basically wrote you a blank cheque and said have a good life. This blank cheque was unique in securing the Veteran for life, something that has to come first with all else to follow. These words that come from the Minister are words taken directly from the bureaucrats. It all boils down to a government who allowed a well placed system to be replaced by a system far inferior. You can throw all your transition moves, NVC benefits, gap fixing, now this pension into a spin of influencing as many takers as possible, but at the end of the day, it does not wash.

Is the pension act pension coming back, no, the pension from the old act is history. This is the Canadian government putting themselves ahead of their Veterans. The next time you see government heads at a remembrance service, think of how the government took the pension act away from those Veterans 2006 forward, and make your own judgement on whether those heads are there because they care, or just for photo ops.

One more point to consider, the ruling from the appeal court on Equitas has set a precedence for the government on it's treatment to it's disabled Veterans, a precedence that is sure to be used against us all moving forward. So until that is changed, don't expect much in terms of anything of great support with substantial improvements from the government.

Veterans who think they can negotiate with a government that has showed it's disrespect to Veterans I wish them all the luck in the world. Because luck is needed badly, the Canadian government looks after their own kind, Veterans get the shaft from the very government who sends them to battle, shame on them!
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:27 pm

Aaron Bedard

Dec 14, 2017

PLEASE SHARE
$2733.47 is the lowest amount paid for a class one single person under the pension act at 100% disability currently in 2017. $1200 is low. This is not Trudeau’s campaign promise to reinstate THE pension. There is only one pension to reinstate. I’ve spoken to all my fellow plaintiffs and we are 100% committed to taking the EQUITAS lawsuit to the next phase of appeal in the Supreme Court of Canada.
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 7:03 am

Veterans brace for battle and disappointment as pension decision looms

Ex-soldier says Liberal plan for veterans pension must be tax-free and end unfair clawbacks

By Murray Brewster, CBC News --- Posted: Dec 14, 2017

The Liberal government's plan to give wounded ex-soldiers "the option" of a lifetime pension will be a complicated two-part rejigging of the current system, CBC News has learned.

A series of sources with knowledge of the file say the first component involves recognizing the pain and suffering of injuries with either the existing lump sum award, or a monthly tax-free payment to a maximum of $1,200 per month.

The second component is a "bundling of existing benefits" already available under the often-maligned New Veterans Charter.

The plan, to be released on Tuesday — a week after the House of Commons recess — has been two years in the making.

The veterans community was awash with rumours Thursday after some advocates had background conversations with senior veterans affairs officials.

Changes to the system are not expected to come into effect until 2019, said the sources who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the file.

A spokesman for Veterans Affairs Minister Seamus O'Regan said the government is committed to delivering on its promise, but would not talk about any details.

"We remain committed to a lifelong benefit option for ill and injured veterans," said Alex Wellstead. "Options and numbers are not nailed down."

The plan will likely not reduce the political heat from veterans groups who have, since the 2015 election, been expecting a major overhaul and a return to what they perceive is a more generous regime.

No parity with previous regime

At the heart of their dissatisfaction was the switch in 2006 away from lifetime pensions for wounds sustained in the line of duty towards a system of lump sum payments with a maximum expenditure of $376,000.

That will not change, the sources said, and the Liberal plan for monthly payments represents the maximum "amortized over time" at the discretion of injured veteran, up to the age of 80.

A policy group that advised former veterans minister Kent Hehr warned him last spring not to go down the road of amortizing the existing benefit.

The average pain and suffering award is $43,000, according to Veterans Affairs Canada documents obtained by CBC News under access to information legislation.

That means very few wounded soldiers would ever see the entire $1,200 per month payment which will be touted next week.

Under the old pension act severely wounded soldiers would have received up $2,700 per month, but Liberal government sources have long said that their changes "would not seek parity" with the previous system.

Call to end clawbacks

It is that disparity that was at the heart of the class action lawsuit by veterans of the Afghan war — a case that was recently thrown out by the B.C. Court of Appeal.

The ex-soldiers claimed they were being discriminated against because the changes were introduced halfway through the war — creating a situation where troops injured in the same conflict at different times would get different benefits.

The Liberals, in the last election, promised to change that by giving soldiers the option of a lump sum or a lifetime pension.

One of the people involved the court case said the changes the government is about to make need to meet a simple test in order to satisfy aggrieved ex-soldiers.

"The bar the government has to meet is parity with the pension act in terms of the net dollars in a veteran's pocket every month," said retired major Mark Campbell, who had both legs blown off in Afghanistan in a booby-trapped ditch.

"It can only be a real pension if the benefits are tax free and if there is no clawback of their military pension as part of the disability payment."

'Bundling of existing benefits'

The government has repeatedly argued that the new system is just as generous when one takes into account taxable entitlements such as the earnings loss benefit and the permanent impairment allowance.

But Campbell said what doesn't get mentioned is the pension clawback, which is "huge" for veterans.

Veterans have complained that that portion of the system is mind-boggling in its complexity and next week's changes are expected to address that by the "bundling of existing benefits."

The Trudeau government signalled in last spring's budget that it would have something to say before the end of the year on the issue of veterans pensions.

It has already put an estimated $6.3 billion put into improved veterans services, including the reopening of nine regional offices shuttered by the previous government; and the rehiring of both claims processing staff and case managers at Veterans Affairs.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vets-pension-fight-1.4449710
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Dannypaj on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 7:11 am

The Government of Canada (GoC) as a whole is in a bind.
What occurred wasn't shameful, but transparent to how the GoC works.
Both sides of the House had the Veteran's file in hand.
Both sides didn't simply reinstate the Pension Act (PA).
Secret deals with lawyers all sworn to the same oath.
Appeal for sure.
This Oath is made up by yours truly the GoC.
But yet the GoC can break their Oath to Canada's brightest with a stroke of a pen (Or the enter button on a computer)?
Take it to the Supreme court.
There is an injustice placed on every soldier at this moment if this isn't rectified sooner than later.
I know the difference and I am not loving the shaft?  
Knowing your PA buddy is on his way to 1000% recovery and has Financial support for him and his family the rest of his life; while everyday I am in doubt and having to check on what "announcements" will be made by the GoC to assure my wellness will still be intact the next day.
Yes, that's fair.

NVC/PA   Ones permanent, the others not.
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 7:44 am

Aaron Bedard Power Play Dec 14, 2017

Scroll down to WATCH FULL EPISODES: Click on play and scroll to the 23:50 mark to view the interview.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ctv-news-channel/power-play-with-don-martin
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:36 pm

Aaron Bedard Interview with PRIMETIME POLITICS Dec 14, 2017

Scroll to the 37:25 mark to view the interview

http://www.cpac.ca/en/programs/primetime-politics/episodes/55513230

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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 8:19 pm

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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 10:37 am

I think we need to understand that as predicted the Liberals Lifelong pension will not meet expectations. The pension will be a disappointment in every aspect of expectations.

We were all made to believe that the Liberal campaign promise to reinstate lifelong pensions would be reinstated equally or better than the pension from the pension act. In reality, there was only one pension to reinstate, the pension from the pension act.

We will not see a lifelong pension we expected, not even close. That is the reality we must all face today. We need to set our emotions aside to allow us all to put our health first. Yes it is sad, and Veterans are upset, but we need to remember that getting to involved emotionally in something that is inevitable works directly against us in a way that can hinder our health.

We were let down once again by our government, something that has been constant since the Liberals took office. We were all fooled into believing in the Liberal government. We must admit our defeat and move on. We need to work on solutions that are in check with reality in terms of the way forward. We need to look at what's not working, and what has not worked, and learn by our mistakes. We need to reassess our tactics, and move towards something that would have a positive impact or outcome in the way we advocate. We need to understand that it is the bureaucrats who we are up against, we need to understand that even though we see the bureaucrats as the enemy, they are very effective in the way they run the Veterans file. The bureaucrats have the experience, and are very good at what they do. There needs to be a method brought forward to push the PM, and MVA to intervene in the bureaucratic circle surrounding the Veterans file. This requires Veterans to come up with a plan that would put the government in a constant negative spotlight in the way they treat disabled Veterans. Something that is very difficult to accomplish but not impossible.

Like I have said many times before, I'm a firm believer that negotiating with the government is not in the best interest of advocating, this has not worked, and continues to solve absolutely nothing. I believe that boycotting the government right across the board is something that may be the start of a new tactic that ends up working in the favor of Veterans, and against the government. It may also bring back unity among Veterans. The use of the media, public protest with a solid points used against the government should continue. Anything but Liberal should start immediately.

Veterans have a major problem today, and the problem is the New Veterans Charter. Anyone who thinks that things will eventually work it's way out with this charter in a given time, or by Equitas, better think again.
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Re: Pension For Life

Post by Trooper on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 7:11 am

Ottawa must fulfill sacred obligation to injured veterans: Editorial

The costs of the best possible care for our veterans should be built into any decision that puts soldiers in harm’s way.

By Star Editorial Board
Mon., Dec. 18, 2017


In opposition and on the campaign trail Justin Trudeau was unequivocal about the federal government’s “sacred obligation” to those who have fought, and especially those who have been injured, for Canada. Yet in office, his commitment to veterans, to this moral duty, has not always been apparent. This week, when the government finally announces its overdue plan to restore lifetime pensions for injured soldiers, Trudeau’s rhetoric will be put to the test.

Sadly, reports of the frugal sums the government is purportedly set to offer suggest this is a test Trudeau may fail. According to unnamed government sources in the Globe and Mail and CBC News, Veterans Affairs Minister Seamus O’Regan plans finally to deliver on the Liberals’ promise to restore the lifetime pensions scrapped by the Harper government, but at a hugely reduced rate. So much, it seems, for the sacred obligation.

That a country that chooses to send soldiers into harm’s way has a duty to care for them upon their return may seem self-evident. But in Canada it has long been a matter of some controversy.

Stephen Harper’s Conservatives, responding to a 2012 class-action lawsuit from six injured Afghan war veterans, claimed the government did not in fact have a “sacred obligation” to veterans. The lawsuit revolved around the Tories’ stingy New Veterans Charter, which, among other things, replaced lifetime pensions for injured veterans with a lump-sum payment, the value of which many veterans will simply outlive.

In opposition, Trudeau repeatedly denounced his rival’s dereliction and called on the Harper government to “start giving our veterans the help they deserve.” He promised, if elected, to bring back the lifetime pensions.

Once in office, the Trudeau government did invest significantly to restore services for veterans that had been cut under Harper. Yet progress on the pension front proved maddeningly slow. In the Liberals’ first budget, they ignored the issue. In their second, they still provided no money, committing only to establish a lifetime pension option by year’s end. Now, just under the wire, the government is set to announce a plan that critics say falls well short of what’s needed.

Apparently, under the new plan, veterans who qualify for benefits under the New Veterans Charter will, as of 2019, be entitled to a pension of up to $1,200 per month, with a maximum benefit of $376,000 over time. That’s the same total offered under the current policy, amortized over 30 years, and it amounts to less than half of the maximum $2,700-per-month benefit awarded to severely injured soldiers who left the military before 2006.

Advocates are understandably upset that the new amounts are insufficient to guarantee veterans a dignified post-military life. Many are also rightly concerned by the inequity that a soldier disabled early in the Afghan war, for instance, will be significantly better off than one who was injured later.

The government’s plan, as reported, would also consolidate a number of other benefits, simplifying a dauntingly prolix system. That’s a welcome move, but surely improving access to still-inadequate benefits fulfills neither the government’s promise nor its duty.

O’Regan, the veterans affairs minister, claims the specific amounts of the new pension have yet to be determined. If true, that’s good news. The government should listen to the critics, recall its earlier commitments, and finally fulfill Ottawa’s sacred obligation. The costs of the best possible care for our veterans should be built into any decision that puts soldiers in harm’s way.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2017/12/18/ottawa-must-fulfill-sacred-obligation-to-injured-veterans-editorial.html
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