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Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial

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Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Empty Re: Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial

Post by Dalton Fri 01 Feb 2019, 11:59 am

Christie Blatchford: Norman defence says attempt to obstruct justice within DND ‘now in play’

Neither Chief of Defence Staff Jon Vance nor the defence minister’s chief of staff searched their personal phones or emails for relevant communications as instructed





Christie Blatchford
January 31, 2019


OTTAWA — At the time Zita Astravas was the crisis manager in Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s office, Vice-Admiral Mark Norman arguably was the crisis, or one of them anyway.

Yet Astravas, who testified Thursday at a pre-trial hearing in Norman’s breach of trust case, struggled to remember the names of her own staff or her interactions with two other key members in Trudeau’s office, principal secretary Gerald Butts and chief of staff Katie Telford.

“Did you also deal with Ms. Telford?” defence lawyer Marie Henein asked.

“I would deal with all persons on a senior level,” Astravas replied.

“But with Telford?” Henein asked.

“I don’t recall specifically,” said Astravas.

“Mr. Butts?” the lawyer asked.

“I don’t recall specifically,” Astravas said.

She was the “issues manager,” which she agreed meant she was responsible for crisis management, from November of 2015, just after the Trudeau government took office, until November of 2017, well after Norman was suspended as the No. 2 in the entire Canadian Forces.


The then-new government was wanting to take a second look at a sole-source contract the previous Stephen Harper government had signed with the Chantier Davie shipyard in Quebec for a desperately needed supply ship for the navy.

The Trudeau government eventually proceeded with the contract, but only after news reports that a cancellation would cost taxpayers $89 million.

It is to one of those reporters, from the CBC, and to an acquaintance at Chantier Davie that Norman is accused of leaking confidential information. He is charged with a single count of breach of trust.

Norman was temporarily suspended as Vice Chief of the Defence Staff (VCDS) in January of 2017, but wasn’t charged by the RCMP until March of 2018.

Astravas’s poor memory for a period hardly lost in the mists of time — her most frequent response was easily “I don’t recall” — was remarkable.

She now works as chief of staff for Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan.

And it is Sajjan’s department, the Department of National Defence or DND, which Norman’s lawyers suggested may have attempted to obstruct justice.


While making submissions, lawyer Christine Mainville told Ontario Court Judge Heather Perkins-McVey that testimony given earlier this week by Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) Jon Vance means that “an attempt to obstruct (justice) within DND is now in play.”

Vance came to court Wednesday with four banker’s boxes full of documents in response to a personal subpoena dated Dec. 18 of last year.

But he testified that in response to an earlier defence subpoena served upon the department in October — it sought disclosure of all records, emails, text or BlackBerry messages in which the Norman matter was discussed — he didn’t search his personal phone or email address.

Similarly, when Astravas was asked the same questions on Thursday, she too replied that she had never searched her personal phone or email for communications about Norman on the advice of DND.

She said she was “not certain” who in the department had advised her.

Yet justice lawyer Rob MacKinnon confirmed for the judge Thursday that when he gave advice to DND last December, “I made it clear the searches were to include” personal emails and phones.

Vance’s boxes of documents will be soon handed over to the judge in a secure form.

Before her now, on a secure laptop, are about 6,300 government documents, none from DND.

Justice lawyers are in the process of reviewing another 13,000 records.

These documents are a mix of those that ought to have been disclosed by prosecutors to the defence in the normal course — such things as notes a witness interviewed by the RCMP may have relied upon — and those which may be protected and thus redacted.


Disclosure of some of those records in the first category, Perkins-McVey remarked Thursday, “should have been done years ago. Why it wasn’t (done) is baffling.”

As Henein told the judge, that prosecutors hadn’t been curious enough “to read the notes” of their own witnesses was galling.

She told Perkins-McVey that prosecutors seem to define their established duty to disclose evidence “by what the Crown wants to ask” and have been taking what she called “a startlingly narrow view of relevance and disclosure.”

Lead prosecutor Barbara Mercier told the judge that the Crown believes very little of what’s in Vance’s boxes are relevant. She described the past week as “a very large fishing expedition” by the defence that “could go on and on til kingdom come.”

The judge’s task is to first determine whether a document is relevant.

Those records she deems relevant she then must examine to see if the contents breach solicitor-client privilege, litigation privilege or public interest immunity.

Witnesses who testified were subpoenaed by the defence team as part of what’s called a “third-party records” motion, in which they are seeking documents dealing with the Norman investigation and prosecution from various government departments and players.

Curiously, in this case, the government is all things — the instigator of the investigation, in that it was the Privy Council Office (PCO) which called in the RCMP; the controller of what documents are or aren’t released to the defence, via again the PCO and the prosecutor, in the form of a team of federal Crowns.

Henein is bringing an abuse-of-process motion, saying she can’t properly defend Norman (who still hasn’t been able to access his own emails) in these circumstances.

That will be heard the week of March 25.

• Email: cblatchford@postmedia.com | Twitter:






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Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Empty Re: Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial

Post by Apollo Fri 01 Feb 2019, 6:40 pm

Access searches for military should be broadened for other identifiers: Vance



Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 5c5499b0023d1641807d7bb7jpeg


By Canadian Press

Access searches for military should be broadened for other identifiers: Vance

Feb 01, 2019


OTTAWA — The Defence Department wasn’t trying to hide any information when its staff used terms other than Vice-Admiral Mark Norman’s name in internal communications, Canada’s top military officer testified in Norman’s criminal case Wednesday.

But, Gen. Jonathan Vance conceded, the department could have done a better job of looking for documents that identified Norman only by acronyms and other labels when answering legal requests for documents about the vice-admiral’s case.

Norman, who was head of the navy and Vance’s No. 2 until he was suspended two years ago, is facing a charge of breach of trust in connection with the alleged leak of cabinet secrets around a $700-million shipbuilding contract.

He has denied any wrongdoing and his defence team has accused the Trudeau government of playing political games with him, singling Norman out for sharing private information when others were leaking as well.

Norman’s politically charged trial is scheduled to run through this fall’s federal election campaign; this phase of the case, a multiday pre-trial hearing, is about determining what evidence is relevant and what sensitive materials the government has to disclose to Norman’s defence lawyers.

On Tuesday, Norman’s legal team produced a number of pseudonyms and other identifiers used within the government to refer to his position following testimony last month that department officials intentionally avoided using his name in emails and other correspondence.

Norman’s lawyers have asked for access to thousands of government records they say will exonerate their client. They’ve argued that the use of “code names” at the Defence Department is part of a pattern by the government to prevent, or least delay, the release of key documents that will ensure their client receives a fair trial.

His lawyers listed several code names officials at the department have used to refer to him — including The Boss, MN3, C34 and The Kraken.

Vance, chief of the defence staff, said the use of other terms to refer to military personnel is common in internal communications and documents.

“Those acronyms are not intended to avoid anything,” Vance said in response to a question from Norman’s lawyer, Marie Henein. “In fact, it would be in my mind foolish to use the acronyms that we’ve seen as a code word because they’re so common.”

“Kraken,” for instance, is meant to be a play on the word for a mythical gigantic squid that comes from Norman’s title as commander of the Royal Canadian Navy, or “CRCN.”

On the other hand, Vance said, “if there is a sinister effort by some to use something completely unassociated with the normal vernacular to try and bury communications, well, that would be very serious.”

“How is anyone supposed to know how you refer to them?” Henein asked Vance, referring to people with Norman’s job title and position.

Vance replied “it would be on us” to ensure that searches directed at the department are interpreted to capture the various ways that Norman’s position and title might come up. He added that this task is not managed by the Armed Forces, but by the civilian department.

He also told the court that he provided additional search terms for Norman to the Justice Department late last week.

Following his appearance, Vance told reporters outside the Ottawa courthouse that he wants to ensure the military plays an “effective, correct role” when it comes to the production of documents for Norman’s case.

“And if there’s anybody out there who is in any way trying to thwart that, then we’ll certainly try to get to the bottom of it because he deserves a full and fair defence,” Vance said.

“This has been a difficult and painful process for all of us, including Vice-Admiral Norman. None of this makes anyone in uniform happy.”

During his testimony, Vance also said he’d spoken to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau about Norman’s suspension and met in person to inform other senior figures in the government, including Trudeau’s top aides Katie Telford and Gerald Butts, exchanges that the Conservatives seized on in question period on Parliament Hill.

“So far we have heard that documents have been withheld from (Norman), access-to-information requests have been deliberately sabotaged so as not to turn up any documents, we’ve learned today about private dinners and conversations and little meetings that happened with the prime minister and his inner circle that, not surprisingly, no notes or documentation to go along with them,” said deputy Tory leader Lisa Raitt, and accused Trudeau of having prejudged Norman’s case before he’d even been charged with anything.

“I, of course, have regular interactions with the chief of defence staff,” Trudeau replied. “In this instance, the chief notified me of steps being taken regarding this individual. The notion that any politician was involved in those decisions is completely false and I won’t comment further as the matter is before the courts.”

Andy Blatchford, The Canadian Press





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Post by Rockarm Sat 02 Feb 2019, 10:12 am

How to avoid a paper trail: The reliable — sometimes illegal — tricks used by bureaucrats and political staff

The idea of avoiding the creation of written records is deeply embedded in governments across Canada — and it has been exposed time and time again

Brian Platt

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen

Published on: February 1, 2019



Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Confidential
Sometimes stamping documents 'confidential' just isn't enough to ensure no one unwanted sees them.


Five years ago, as the Ontario Provincial Police were investigating the gas plants scandal, the former top public servant in the province gave a quote that would become legendary.

“The only organizations that did not maintain records were criminal organizations,” Peter Wallace, secretary to the cabinet during Premier Dalton McGuinty’s tenure, told his police interviewer.

Wallace was describing his conversations with McGuinty’s chief of staff, David Livingston. Wallace was horrified by claims from senior political staff that important meetings and deliberations were only being conducted verbally, leaving scant written records.

The gas plants scandal was kicked off by the curious fact that when a legislature committee sought records about the decision to cancel the contracts, political staff reported they had little to no records to submit. Police got involved, charges were laid, and Livingston was eventually sentenced to four months in jail for his role in wiping computer hard drives in the premier’s office.

Yet the practice of leaving no paper trail is a well-known strategy among political staff and bureaucrats. The gas plants scandal was an extreme case in that it led to criminal charges, but the underlying idea of avoiding the creation of written records is deeply embedded in governments across Canada — and it has been exposed time and time again. Not all cases are illegal, but the practice violates the principle that governments are supposed to be accountable to the people who elect them.

The issue has surfaced in the criminal trial of Vice Admiral Mark Norman, as his defence team wages battle to collect subpoenaed documents across seven government departments and agencies.

The past week saw Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jonathan Vance in the witness box being grilled by Norman’s lawyers on his own record-keeping habits. Vance is a key witness in the case, as he made the unprecedented decision in January 2017 to suspend Norman; at the time, Norman was Vance’s second-in-command of the Canadian Forces.

Vance met with RCMP investigators four times in the lead-up to Norman being charged in March 2018. He also briefed top officials from the Prime Minister’s Office, spoke with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau himself, and informed Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan about the investigation and his decision to suspend Norman. Yet Vance has no notes or records from any of those meetings, he told Norman’s lawyer, Marie Henein.

“So there isn’t a single document or a single note of what transpires … There is not a single document that, from your end, tells us what occurred during those conversations?” asked Henein.

“I have no records,” Vance responded. He later told reporters he felt his role in the meetings was straightforward enough that he needed no notes of his own. (The court has not yet heard evidence of whether other participants took their own notes.)

Over the years, a few common themes have emerged over how government officials, bureaucrats and political staff avoid leaving a paper trail — or, when the trail does exist, attempt to block its disclosure. Here are a few of the best-known tactics.

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Dontwriteitdown

Don’t write it down

Vance is hardly the first official to say that important discussions took place entirely verbally, leaving no written trace. This is a tried-and-true tactic with a long history of use within government, including at the Department of National Defence.

“I know from first-hand experience that all senior managers at National Defence are acutely aware of the fact that anything they write, whether it’s formally or informally in notebooks, is accessible,” Col. Geoff Haswell, former director of public affairs operations at National Defence Headquarters, testified at the 1996 Somalia inquiry. “Some of them have experienced that, and therefore they do practise a policy of not writing down anything they don’t wish anyone to have access to.”

McGuinty, speaking to police in 2014, said communications in his office were “overwhelmingly verbal in nature,” and that was why so few records existed of how decisions were made when he was Ontario premier.

Ontario’s Information and Privacy Commissioner at the time, Ann Cavoukian, told a legislature committee that of course staff should have verbal discussions, but not at the total expense of keeping a written record.

“If you had no records — I mean, it’s preposterous — then you couldn’t have the kind of accountability that is predicated on the existence of such records to enable the public to have access to this much-needed information,” she said. “It’s simply untenable that we could have a verbal culture permeate to the exclusion of written records.”

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Usecodewords

Code words and pseudonyms

A Canadian Forces witness called by Norman’s lawyers to testify alleged that his superior, a brigadier-general, told him Norman’s name was deliberately not used in internal files — meaning any search for records about Norman would come up empty. The witness, whose name is covered by a publication ban, said he was processing an access-to-information request in 2017 that returned no results. When he sought clarification, the witness testified the general smiled and told him: “Don’t worry, this isn’t our first rodeo. We made sure we never used his name. Send back the nil return.”

When Vance testified, he pushed back on the notion that anything sinister was going on. He argued it may be a case of common military jargon (such as “MN3” for Mark Norman 3-star, or “C34” for 34th commander of the navy) making it difficult to search for Norman’s name.

Yet Norman’s lawyer also demanded to know whether Sajjan’s top political aide was referring to Norman as “the certain naval officer” in messages, which suggests Henein has cause to believe it happened.

It is common for political staff to use code words for certain subjects. “Project Vapour,” for example, was what McGuinty’s staff used in emails when managing the controversy over the gas plants cancellation. Later, when Trillium Power sued the Ontario government over the cancellation of an offshore wind project, it alleged that offshore wind records were “assigned a code name to render their retrieval impossible.”

The Ottawa Citizen uncovered in 1999 that officials at the Department of National Defence and in the office of then Liberal defence minister Art Eggleton were tracking the access requests of certain journalists and researchers. In documents, Defence officials referred to those people as the “usual suspects” and not by their names; that allowed for the DND to circumvent the access law in its searches.

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Stickynote

Sticky notes

One of the DND tactics that emerged during the Somalia inquiry was the use of sticky notes (such as Post-its) to avoid having information being released to the public. A top public affairs officer testified that his boss tended not to write any of her views on an actual document but instead made comments on a yellow sticky note that would be attached to the record. That way the sticky note could be removed as needed and the boss’s directions wouldn’t be made public. Some DND staff, however, started taping or stapling the yellow notes to the original record as they saw them as being important for their record keeping.

Whether sticky notes need to be kept depends on how a government defines a “transitory record.” Transitory records are generally those with no long-term importance, meaning they can be discarded after a decision is reached.

Yet most government rules make it clear that sticky notes can’t just be automatically discarded. “Records could appear to meet the criteria of being transitory, but the roles of the employees and the use of the information could make them official,” says the Alberta government’s guide. “For example, a Post-it note that documents an approval or a recommendation that could help guide future financial or legal decisions may appear to be transitory because of its format, but it is an official document that must be kept.”

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Destroyfiles2

Delete, destroy or rename

A 2015 investigation by B.C.’s Information and Privacy Commissioner demonstrated just how far political staffers would go to ensure their emails were never disclosed. Staffers called it the “triple-delete” system: First you delete the email from your inbox, then you delete it from the trash folder, then you override the backup system. “Triple deleting an email completely expunges it from the government system, unless it was captured by a daily or monthly backup,” the report said.

The investigation was prompted by a whistle-blower who said B.C. provincial political staff were deleting emails relating to missing and murdered Indigenous women; it resulted in one staffer resigning and being fined $2,500.

The Ontario gas plants scandal saw similar allegations, as it emerged that political staff were given explicit instructions to regularly purge their emails. In both provinces, new record-retention rules were brought in after the scandals.

In 2000, then federal Information Commissioner John Reid found that the DND broke the law when it destroyed documents requested under the access law by the Ottawa Citizen. The investigation also determined that the department’s top leadership was informed documents requested under the law by the Citizen were destroyed, but they failed to tell either the newspaper or Reid’s office. Those bureaucrats who destroyed the records did not face any consequences.

Another DND strategy to prevent records from being released was to rename those documents and then claim the requested file couldn’t be found. This tactic was uncovered during the Somalia inquiry.

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Personalphone

Use personal phones for government business

Some bureaucrats and political staff use their personal phones to conduct sensitive business with the view that such devices do not fall under access-to-information laws, and messages or texts do not have to be produced when requested.

That tactic does not work when it comes to subpoenas, however. In the court hearing that wrapped up this week, Norman’s lawyer showed that multiple officials had not searched their personal phones for records — including Vance and Sajjan’s chief of staff.

Some of the subpoenas issued by Norman’s defence team ask for “all communications,” meaning it encompasses both official and non-official messages. Henein has made it clear that personal phones must be part of the search.

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Refusetorelease

Claim the documents don’t exist — even when they do

In January Postmedia revealed that in 2017 the military’s top legal officers circumvented the Access to Information Act by claiming that a report, requested under the law, didn’t exist, even though it did. At least three officers inside National Defence headquarters raised concerns that the law was being broken. Vance’s office was informed about the alleged illegal scheme. Still, the military claimed the report did not exist.

The plan was eventually discovered but the senior officers who claimed the documents didn’t exist faced no consequences. Instead, the DND blamed a clerk, saying the individual should have challenged the senior officers who claimed the report didn’t’ exist.

• Email: bplatt@postmedia.com | Twitter: btaplatt

• Email: dpugliese@postmedia.com | Twitter: Twitter.com/davidpugliese




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Post by Enforcer Sat 02 Feb 2019, 7:05 pm

The Conservative connection that could be critical to Vice-Admiral Mark Norman's case

What was Norman told to do by the Harper government regarding the $668M supply ship leasing plan?

Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Feb 02, 2019



Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Mark-norman-20190130


On the surface, the arguments made this week in the criminal case against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman may have seemed as dull as dishwater.

Defence and Crown lawyers spent days arguing over who searched for what documents and where. Not exactly high drama, even for seasoned observers.

Look closer, however, and you might have seen a number of tantalizing, relevant threads emerging from the legal and political Gordian Knot of Norman's breach-of-trust trial.

The military's former second-in-command stands accused of leaking cabinet secrets to a now-former CBC journalist and an executive at the Quebec shipyard which leased the federal government a temporary supply ship for the navy.

In fact, most of the 12 alleged leaks cited by the Crown involve the Davie shipyard in Levis, Que.

The leasing deal was hammered out on the eve of the 2015 election by the former Conservative government and grudgingly approved by the Liberals weeks after they took power.

Norman's alleged leaks, according to the Crown, were intended to influence the governments of the day toward embracing the Davie lease deal.

This week, however, the court heard in more detail about how the RCMP have not interviewed a number of former Conservative ministers and staffers who were involved in this file — including former defence ministers Jason Kenney and Rob Nicholson and those who worked for them.

More curious still is the fact that Crown and federal lawyers — the gatekeepers of the documents being sought by Norman's defence team — have mounted an extraordinary rearguard action to keep records related to the Conservative era under seal.

Barbara Mercier, the senior Crown who helmed the case this week, used these words to describe the majority of the defence requests for documents: "I have a very strong feeling that this has been a very large fishing expedition."

She suggested the hearing process "could go on and on" and that it was important for the judge to "keep things on track."

Those remarks earned Mercier a rebuke from Justice Heather Perkins-McVey — but they also inadvertently turned the spotlight on an intriguing aspect of the case:

What were Norman's marching orders from the former Conservative government related to the $668-million leased supply ship project?

And what would those sealed documents — the ones the Crown is trying so hard to protect — reveal about those orders?

This is tricky legal ground. The documents in question are, for all intents and purposes, cabinet secrets.

Weeks ago, former prime minister Stephen Harper appeared to clear the way by saying he had no objection to releasing those records.

The Crown, however, is now arguing the documents should be kept sealed under a provision known as "public interest immunity," which is a separate mechanism for protecting cabinet documents from public scrutiny.

An end-run around the bureaucracy?
What's more, prosecutors are fighting to keep Norman's own notes and records — compiled when he was commander of the navy and later vice chief of the staff — from being disclosed to him and his lawyers.

Those documents could shed more light on the nature of the marching orders he was given by the previous government.

It's already a matter of public record that the Harper government went to extraordinary lengths to push the cargo ship lease through the system.

In order to make it happen, the Conservatives amended the regulations on sole-source contracts — something that, in all likelihood, waved a red flag for the Liberals who came after them.

.... the navy was working directly with PMO to try and make this happen.
- PCO analyst Melissa Burke to the RCMP
There is also ample information in the court records, filed as part of the case, to suggest that the Harper government deliberately bypassed the federal public works bureaucracy, the Department of National Defence and even Norman's own direct commander, former chief of the defence staff Tom Lawson.

Privy Council Office analyst Melissa Burke told the RCMP — in a witness transcript included in documents released by the court late last year, which have not been entered in evidence nor tested in court — that the Prime Minister's Office under Harper "very much wanted this to go through."

She cited a briefing note that was signed by Norman only — and not by his boss.

"What that says to me is, the navy was working directly with PMO to try and make this happen," Burke said.

Putting the Norman case in context
Unsealing documents from the Conservative era would not affect the allegation that Norman leaked the results of a Liberal cabinet meeting to a now-former CBC journalist in November 2015.

It would, however, provide important context —and explain the Norman trial's baffling backstory.

There's one final twist to note that might be significant.

The Privy Council Office bureaucrat in charge of the search for government records testified this week they can't find some emails, texts and messages at National Defence — notably those of Conservative political staffers and former ministers.

The contents of dormant email accounts are supposed to be "wiped" after six months, said Patsy Bradley.




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Post by Phrampton Mon 04 Feb 2019, 12:19 pm

Last week's questioning of Gen. Jon Vance by Norman’s lawyer a preview of what is to come?

DAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN February 4, 2019

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Vance-norman-1

Vice Admiral Mark Norman has faced an uphill battle getting the documents from the Canadian Forces and the Department of National Defence that he needs to defend himself against a charge of breach of trust. That charge is related to allegations by the RCMP that Norman leaked information to a shipbuilder about Liberal government plans to derail the company’s project to provide a supply ship to the Royal Canadian Navy.

Norman has pleaded not guilty and counters that he was following orders from the previous Conservative government to maintain links with the firm and to make sure the supply ship project proceeded.

In October subpoenas were issued that required DND and Canadian Forces officials to search for related records. This third-party record application was a required legally binding search of documents.

In December the court heard from a military officer who testified that a brigadier general allegedly boasted of a method used by the Canadian Forces to avoid having to produce records about Norman. The name of the witness is protected by the court to prevent retaliation by the Canadian Forces. The witness testified that the military would not refer to Norman by name in various documents, that way thwarting any search for records about him.

When this situation was revealed in court, Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance gave an interview with the CBC’s Murray Brewster expressing his outrage.

“I’m alarmed and somewhat disgusted by this, if it’s true,” Vance said in the interview. “I cannot say enough about how bad this is, if it’s true.”

“If it was done, if it has been done, it’s wrong, dead wrong and we’ll stop it.”

The Dec. 21, 2018 online article had the title: “Vance erupts over report that DND evaded information requests on Mark Norman”


But last week after Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Vance was questioned by Norman’s lawyer Marie Henein, the public learned that Vance’s eruption, alarm and disgust over the situation was actually rather limited. Some of the testimony is below:

HENEIN: So on Dec. 21 you become aware that a person has testified that (Norman’s) name was not used to avoid (Access to Information) requests. At that point, on Dec. 21, after taking the time to speak to the media can you please tell me what steps you took at that point to advise either the Department of Justice or the prosecution that there are other ways that Vice Admiral Norman is referred to that they should be aware of?

VANCE: I spoke to the deputy minister and expressed my concern.

HENEIN: Did you direct anybody to disclose the other ways that Vice Admiral Norman is referred to?

VANCE: I did not. I did not because I didn’t think that was the issue at hand. I take your point and I learned something today.


Also last week in court Henein revealed that the military had what she termed as codewords for the Vice Admiral Norman, again suggesting a concerted effort with the DND and the Canadian Forces to avoid having to produce the documents needed for Norman’s defence. Among the terminology used was C34, N3, Kracken, NM and the boss. Vance, however, stated in court that the terms are not codewords – they are common military terms he claimed – and there is nothing sinister about their usage.

Did Vance tell the Department of Justice officials who were co-ordinating the search for “Norman” records within the DND and Canadian Forces about these terms they should look for?

The testimony continues:


HENEIN: Am I right that nothing was done to alert the DOJ (Department of Justice) to provide these military terms?

VANCE: I alerted the deputy minister of my concern and thereafter I don’t know what happened.


Here is more testimony about that subject:

HENEIN: How on earth would anyone know that you refer to him as C34, N3 or Kracken or NM or the boss? How could anyone know that is how you refer to him?

VANCE: Right.

HENEIN: No, I’m asking a question.

VANCE: In my view therefore it would be on us to ensure the search terms directed inside the department are broad enough and capture the various ways his position and title would come up.

HENEIN: You did not do that

VANCE: (silence for several seconds).

HENEIN: You did not do that.

VANCE: Well….

HENEIN: You did not do that. The motion for documents was filed in October. Documents had been requested by Mr. MacKinnon and Mr. Rasmussen (Justice Dept. officials co-ordinating the collection of DND/government documents) who are working very hard to collect documents. Did you at any time write to them and say to them the search should include all the other records? Did you ever say that?

VANCE: No Ma’am. I, I, we are now running outside the boundaries of my responsibilities to the Armed Forces. I don’t manage the Access to Information program.

HENEIN: I’m not asking about access to information. I’m asking about a third party record application.

VANCE: Right. The third party record application is managed by the department. I did not give that direction. I have since given that direction.


At one point the Crown prosecutor tried to stop the questioning of Gen. Vance but the judge overruled that and allowed Henein to continue.

This is the type of questioning that emerged from a hearing focused simply on the production of records needed by Norman. Henein has yet to get into the actual heart of the Norman case in which she will be questioning Vance, Liberal MP Scott Brison, Liberal Cabinet Minister Catherine McKenna and various government officials.

That comes in August when the actual trial starts. What should emerge from that will be interesting to say the least.

You can read about the details of the witnesses to be called by the Crown (and who will be cross-examined by Henein) here:
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/brison-may-be-going-but-he-and-these-others-will-be-testifying-at-the-mark-norman-trial

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Post by Diesel Mon 04 Feb 2019, 5:26 pm

Why the Canadian military's former second-in-command is on trial | Power & Politics

CBC News
Published on Jan 30, 2019




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Post by Ironman Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:21 pm

Liberal MP Scott Brison announces resignation from the Commons





Published Wednesday, February 6, 2019

OTTAWA – Longtime Liberal MP and former cabinet minister Scott Brison has announced that he will be resigning his seat, effective Feb. 10.

On Wednesday, Brison delivered what is considered his farewell address in the House of Commons, nearly 22 years after he first was elected.


During his remarks he reflected on the importance and impact that Parliament can have in the lives of people, and on his experience to serve in government and opposition.

"Yes, I have enjoyed my time on the front benches, but let me tell you all there is no such thing as a bad seat in the House of Commons," Brison said. "Don't ever take for granted the honour of being entrusted by Canadians to forge the future of this country, in this place, to improve the lives of people and to make a difference."

Last month, Brison announced he was resigning from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's cabinet because he would not be seeking re-election this fall. Brison's departure from the Treasury Board President post triggered a cabinet shuffle to fill his vacancy.

It was unclear at that time whether Brison intended to remain the MP for the riding of Kings-Hants, N.S., up to the end of this term, or whether he'd be resigning early. There will not be a byelection to fill his seat, meaning it’ll stay open until the October federal election.

At the time, Brison cited wanting to spend more time with family and being ready for "new challenges."

Brison was Canada’s first openly gay federal cabinet minister. He and his husband, Maxime St. Pierre, are fathers to twin girls Rose and Claire, who are four years old.

Brison's speech on Wednesday was followed by tributes from his colleagues.

First elected in June 1997 as a Progressive Conservative, Brison crossed the floor to the Liberals shortly after the PCs merged with the Canadian Alliance in 2003.

Prior to his floor-crossing, Brison sought the leadership of the Progressive Conservatives in 2003. Brison served as minister of public works and government services under Liberal prime minister Paul Martin, and for some time was the party's finance critic.

Before entering public office, Brison worked as an entrepreneur and investment banker. At Dalhousie University he earned the nickname "fridge magnate," after starting an appliance-renting business as a student.

This fall, Brison faced questions over his ties to Nova Scotia-based Irving Shipbuilding, in relation to suspended Vice-Admiral Mark Norman's ongoing trial for allegedly leaking cabinet secrets related to Quebec-based Davie Shipbuilding.

Norman's lawyers have accused Brison in court filings of acting inappropriately by leading an effort to end a multi-million dollar contract with Davie for an interim naval support ship, and as The Canadian Press has reported, are planning to make him a key witness in the coming summer trial. Brison has denied any wrongdoing and has said that this case had "absolutely no bearing" on his decision to leave federal politics.





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Post by Zoneforce Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:56 pm

DND deputy minister also attended RCMP briefings on Mark Norman case — and also took no notes



Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Mark-norman-1


David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
February 6, 2019


Another top defence official who took part in RCMP meetings about Vice-Admiral Mark Norman has admitted to not taking any notes during those briefings.

Jody Thomas, the deputy minister at the Department of National Defence, took part in two RCMP briefings on the Norman case. But the DND has confirmed to Postmedia that, like Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance, Thomas took no notes about what was discussed during the meetings with police.

In an unprecedented move, Vance decided to suspend Norman, then the second-highest-ranking officer in the Canadian military, in January 2017 after senior RCMP officers alleged the naval officer had leaked information about the Liberal government’s decision to stall a project to lease a naval supply ship from a Quebec shipbuilding firm.

In March 2018 Norman was charged with one count of breach of trust in a case that has sparked allegations of political interference by the Liberal government.

Vance testified at a pre-trial hearing last week that he didn’t take any notes when senior RCMP briefed him on the matter on Jan. 9 2017. On the same day, Vance also met with defence minister Harjit Sajjan and with Gerald Butts, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s principal secretary, and Trudeau’s chief of staff Katie Telford, to discuss the Norman situation. He also had a brief phone call with Trudeau himself.

However, Vance testified that he took no notes during any of the meetings. Vance also testified he did not have any notes from three other meetings he had with the RCMP about the Norman case after January 2017.

Thomas was with Vance for two meetings with the RCMP, one on Nov. 27, 2017 and another on Jan. 25, 2018, according to government records. “Notes were not taken,” DND stated in an email to Postmedia. “Given it was an information brief on a matter for which the Deputy Minister had no decision-making role, there was no need to take notes.”

Vance also testified he had dinner with Telford and Butts — DND said the three dined on April 26, 2017 — but that Norman was not discussed. Vance also did not have any notes from March 2018 when Norman was criminally charged, and could not recall how he was informed about the charge.

Zita Astravas, a former senior official in the Prime Minister’s Office involved in crisis management on the Norman case, had difficulty recalling at last week’s a pre-trial hearing whether she had any interactions related to the matter with either Butts or Telford.

The pre-trial hearing is reviewing requests by Norman’s defence team for a trove of documents which the naval officer’s lawyers contend they need in order to mount his defence.

Many of those documents have not been delivered despite a court order for various government departments and officials to produce records. The bulk of the records which have still not been released are being held by DND.

Last week, Norman’s defence team unveiled a list of acronyms and other terms that military officials may have used instead of Norman’s name, such as “the boss,” “N3,” and “C34.” They contend that the use of such terms may have thwarted some attempts to find documents.

But Vance argued these terms are common military jargon for the commander of the navy, and not necessarily a “sinister” plan to frustrate the ability to find documents about Norman.

He acknowledged, however, that unless officials were specifically instructed to use these as search terms, subpoenas from Norman’s defence team may not have turned up documents that used those phrases. He also acknowledged it was only last week he inquired about whether the searches for subpoenaed documents were using these terms — despite the fact subpoenas were issued in October.

Norman’s lawyer Marie Henein is bringing an abuse-of-process motion, saying she can’t properly defend the naval officer.

— with files from Brian Platt, National Post

• Email: bplatt@postmedia.com | Twitter: btaplatt




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Post by Stealth Mon 11 Feb 2019, 6:30 pm

Mark Norman lawyers protest 'strategy' talks between Crown, federal lawyers

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Image

Lee Berthiaume, The Canadian Press
Published Monday, February 11, 2019


OTTAWA -- Vice-Admiral Mark Norman's legal team has raised questions about the independence of federal prosecutors after the Crown and lawyers from the department that supports Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke several times last year about "trial strategy."

Partially censored copies of notes taken by the Crown during those talks with lawyers from the Privy Council Office were submitted in court Monday, as Norman's lawyers resumed their fight for access to thousands of government documents.

Lead prosecutor Barbara Mercier explained to Norman's lawyer Christine Mainville in an email also filed in court that the handwritten notes were redacted because they dealt with "trial strategy."


Mainville told the court on Monday that prosecutors should not be talking strategy with the Privy Council Office, which she called the "right arm" to the Prime Minister's Office and first launched the investigation that led to Norman being charged.

"The PCO supports the prime minister. They implement what the Prime Minister's Office wants. They execute on behalf of the Prime Minister's Office," Mainville said.

"So it seems what we are being told is the prosecution service is devising their trial strategy with ... the body that reports to and executes the directions of the Prime Minister's Office."

She went on to say that the discussions between the Crown and PCO were "more concerning" than the allegations the Prime Minister's Office tried to intervene in the criminal case against SNC-Lavalin.

Trudeau's office is accused of trying to pressure former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould to direct federal prosecutors to negotiate a "remediation deal" with the Quebec company rather than move ahead with criminal prosecution.

"By all appearances, this is a more direct influencing of the prosecution," Mainville said.

"The attorney general is entirely bypassed. The Prime Minister's Office, via its right arm the PCO, is dealing directly with the (Public Prosecution Service of Canada). And the prosecution service is allowing this to happen."

"So much for the independence of the PPSC," quipped Justice Heather Perkins-McVey, who ordered the Crown to deliver to her an uncensored copy of the notes, to be held under seal, before the case resumes Friday.

Norman was suspended as the military's second-in-command in January 2017 and charged last March with one count of breach of trust for allegedly leaking government secrets to undermine cabinet's decision-making process on a major shipbuilding deal.

He has denied any wrongdoing and his politically charged trial is scheduled to start in August. Monday represented the ninth day of a pre-trial hearing that started in December over what government documents Norman's lawyers are allowed to see.

Much of the proceedings have revolved around whether the government has tried to hide key documents, prevent access to witnesses, cherry-picked what information is made public or otherwise interfered in the case.





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Post by Silversun Mon 11 Feb 2019, 7:09 pm

Norman's defence accuses Trudeau PMO of attempting to direct prosecution

Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Feb 11, 2019

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Mark-norman-20181123




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Post by Silversun Mon 11 Feb 2019, 7:16 pm

February 11, 2019

Mark Norman’s lawyer accuses Trudeau government of interfering in case

By Staff The Canadian Press





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Post by Silversun Mon 11 Feb 2019, 8:33 pm

Alleged political interference in Mark Norman case ‘more concerning’ than SNC-Lavalin accusations: defence


Lawyer Christine Mainville told the court that prosecutors should not be talking strategy with the Privy Council Office, which she called the ‘right arm’ to the PMO

Feb 11, 2019





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Post by Slider Tue 12 Feb 2019, 8:41 am

Mark Norman lawyers protest ‘strategy’ talks between Crown, federal lawyers

By Lee Berthiaume, The Canadian Press on February 12, 2019

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman Trial - Page 6 Vice-Admiral-Mark-Norman
Norman was suspended as the military’s second-in-command in January 2017 and charged last March with one count of breach of trust for allegedly leaking government secrets to undermine cabinet’s decision-making process on a major shipbuilding deal. (File Photo: Canadian Armed Forces/Facebook)

Ottawa Vice-Admiral Mark Norman's legal team has raised questions about the independence of federal prosecutors after the Crown and lawyers from the department that supports Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke several times last year about “trial strategy.”

Partially censored copies of notes taken by the Crown during those talks with lawyers from the Privy Council Office were submitted in court Monday, as Norman’s lawyers resumed their fight for access to thousands of government documents.


In an email also filed in court, lead prosecutor Barbara Mercier explained to Norman’s lawyer Christine Mainville that the handwritten notes were redacted because they dealt with “trial strategy.”

“As I recall, the portions of the attached documents which have been redacted deal with trial strategy, not witness preparation or discussion about their evidence,” Mercier wrote.

But Mainville told the court Monday that prosecutors should not talk strategy with the Privy Council Office, which she called the “right arm” to the Prime Minister’s Office. The PCO first launched the investigation that ended with Norman being charged.

“The PCO supports the prime minister. They implement what the prime minister’s office wants. They execute on behalf of the Prime Minister’s Office,” Mainville said.

“So it seems what we are being told is the prosecution service is devising their trial strategy with … the body that reports to and executes the directions of the Prime Minister’s Office.”

She went on to say the discussions between the Crown and PCO were “more concerning” than allegations the Prime Minister’s Office tried to intervene in the criminal case against SNC-Lavalin.

Trudeau’s office is accused of trying to pressure former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould to direct federal prosecutors to negotiate a “remediation deal” with the Quebec company rather than move ahead with criminal prosecution.

“By all appearances, this is a more direct influencing of the prosecution,” Mainville said.

“The attorney general is entirely bypassed. The Prime Minister’s Office, via its right arm the PCO, is dealing directly with the (Public Prosecution Service of Canada). And the prosecution service is allowing this to happen.”

“So much for the independence of the PPSC,” quipped Justice Heather Perkins-McVey, who ordered the Crown to deliver to her an uncensored copy of the notes, to be held under seal, before the case resumes Friday.

Norman was suspended as the military’s second-in-command in January 2017 and charged last March with one count of breach of trust for allegedly leaking government secrets to undermine cabinet’s decision-making process on a major shipbuilding deal.

The $700-million contract, in which a Quebec shipyard was asked to convert a civilian container ship into a temporary support vessel for the navy, was negotiated by Stephen Harper’s Conservative government and finalized by Trudeau’s Liberals in 2015.

Norman has denied any wrongdoing and his politically charged trial is scheduled to start in August. Monday represented the ninth day of a pre-trial hearing that began in December over what government documents Norman’s lawyers are allowed to see.

His team wants access to potentially thousands of government documents about the contract, including records held by Trudeau’s office, to prove their client was supporting the Tories in obtaining the ship before falling victim to Liberal political games.

However, much of the proceedings have revolved around whether the government has tried to hide key documents, prevent access to witnesses, cherry-picked what information is made public or otherwise interfered in the case.

Among the documents Norman’s lawyers want to see are emails and other internal correspondence about their client and the case from officials in Trudeau’s office as well as the Privy Council Office.

Norman’s lawyers will attempt to get the case thrown out entirely next month during what’s called an abuse of process hearing by arguing there is no legitimate reason for the charge against him.





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Post by Wolverine Tue 12 Feb 2019, 7:13 pm

Cost to taxpayers for Mark Norman prosecution may never be known

Lawyers observing the case have told Postmedia they estimate the cost to taxpayers at this point for the prosecution to be between $10 million and $15 million

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
February 12, 2019



Taxpayers may never know how much it cost them to prosecute Vice Admiral Mark Norman or even the number of federal employees involved in presenting the government’s case in court.

Norman’s legal battle started in early 2017 and are now bogged down in a pre-trial hearing where his lawyers have been trying to get federal records they contend are needed to defend the officer against one count of breach of trust.

The Public Prosecution Service of Canada noted in an email to Postmedia it will not be releasing what it has spent to date compiling the case against the senior navy officer. Nor will it be releasing the final cost either after the prosecution is over. The prosecution service stated it does not track such cases individually.

The prosecution service confirmed it has three lawyers assigned to the Norman case but could not say how many additional staff are working as it “varies at different stages of prosecution,” according to the email.

The Justice Department declined to provide their cost figure, noting that Postmedia will have to use the Access to Information law if it wants to attempt to obtain what the organization is spending on the Norman case. That process can take from one to seven years and there is no guarantee the cost figure would ultimately be released.


Department spokeswoman Angela Savard noted that there are three to five lawyers assigned to the Norman case as well as two paralegals.

Lawyers observing the case have told Postmedia they estimate the cost to taxpayers at this point for the prosecution to be between $10 million and $15 million. As many as 30 federal employees have been involved in the case at varying times, they added.

The RCMP alleges the naval officer leaked information about the Liberal government’s decision to stall a naval supply ship contract to a Quebec firm.

Earlier this week Norman’s legal team highlighted discussions about the “trial strategy” between the Crown and lawyers in the Privy Council Office. The naval officer’s lawyers argue they need the judge to vet those documents to ensure there hasn’t been any political interference in the case.

In a statement released Tuesday afternoon, the Public Prosecution Service of Canada says its meetings with government lawyers were necessary to identify potential witnesses for the trial — and not a case of the Prime Minister’s Office trying to exert political influence, as Norman’s lawyer Christine Mainville alleged.

Norman has two main lawyers but his costs are not known. Sources, however, say the significant delays in getting basic documents for his defence is pushing his family into bankruptcy.


A GoFundMe page has been set up by retired Canadian Army officer Lee Hammond to help finance Norman’s legal costs.

Hammond had originally set his fundraising goal at $50,000 but has now increased that to $500,000 to cover the increasing legal costs.

“The next step in the process will be to make an application for a stay in the proceedings based on ‘abuse of process’ motion that will be argued at the end of March,” Hammond noted in a message to Norman’s supporters. “Just getting through that next motion will be an expensive undertaking; to say nothing of having to potentially support a 9 week trial later this year.”

Hammond said he started the funding initiative because he feels Norman is facing an unfair battle, facing the unlimited financial and legal capabilities of the federal government. The fund has collected almost $283,000 so far.

Last year Postmedia reported the Canadian government rejected Norman’s request for financial assistance with his legal bills because it had determined the officer was already guilty of disclosing confidential information. At the time the group of senior Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces senior officers reached that conclusion, Norman had yet to be charged. The DND panel came to the conclusion even though it did not carry out an internal investigation.

Norman had made the request for financial assistance, available under a special program for public servants facing legal issues arising from the course of their employment with government.

— With files from Brian Platt

• Email: dpugliese@postmedia.com | Twitter:






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Post by Forcell Wed 13 Feb 2019, 8:54 am

Crown denies receiving 'instructions' from government in Vice-Admiral Norman case

Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Feb 12, 2019



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